Comments on: Congregation or Corporation http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/ Life Under the Cross Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:56:39 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=609 By: Issues, Etc. 2008 Blogs of the Week « Light from Light † http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11717 Issues, Etc. 2008 Blogs of the Week « Light from Light † Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:06:22 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11717 [...] Congregation or Corporation — Vocation in the Valley [...] [...] Congregation or Corporation — Vocation in the Valley [...]

]]> By: Brian Yamabe http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11713 Brian Yamabe Thu, 18 Dec 2008 04:26:56 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11713 Edie, That's me. I'm trying to get back into posting over there more often. Glad to hear you're listening to them. ---Brian Edie,
That’s me. I’m trying to get back into posting over there more often. Glad to hear you’re listening to them.
—Brian

]]> By: edie http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11712 edie Thu, 18 Dec 2008 02:37:23 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11712 Brian, Found your blog through Issues and then realized you're the Wittenberg Media guy. I still listen to those all the time so thank you so much! Brian,
Found your blog through Issues and then realized you’re the Wittenberg Media guy. I still listen to those all the time so thank you so much!

]]> By: Phil http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11711 Phil Tue, 16 Dec 2008 02:44:59 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11711 Actually, I meant to say that the admin and offending pastor are now gone which is a very good thing. Sorry about that. I'm glad the LCMS has policies in place to help keep some of this from happening. Supposedly, the PCA did, too, but the church decided to go against that. ...and..yes, Craig, it is amazing the lengths that a church will go to to attract people. I agree with you about it being a work of the Holy Spirit working in and through the Word and Sacraments. Actually, I meant to say that the admin and offending pastor are now gone which is a very good thing. Sorry about that. I’m glad the LCMS has policies in place to help keep some of this from happening. Supposedly, the PCA did, too, but the church decided to go against that.

…and..yes, Craig, it is amazing the lengths that a church will go to to attract people. I agree with you about it being a work of the Holy Spirit working in and through the Word and Sacraments.

]]> By: Brian Yamabe http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11710 Brian Yamabe Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:23:10 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11710 Craig, I hadn't thought of all the things you say to look out for. I especially look out for "long-range planning committees" and ditching what is not "working." Thanks, Brian Craig,
I hadn’t thought of all the things you say to look out for. I especially look out for “long-range planning committees” and ditching what is not “working.”

Thanks,
Brian

]]> By: Brian Yamabe http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11709 Brian Yamabe Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:20:16 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11709 Phil, Scary story, bringing in an admin. Seems unlikely to happen in the LCMS, but there is a Specific Ministry Pastor program which my allow for this craziness. Thanks for your prayers and encouragement. ---Brian Phil,
Scary story, bringing in an admin. Seems unlikely to happen in the LCMS, but there is a Specific Ministry Pastor program which my allow for this craziness.

Thanks for your prayers and encouragement.

—Brian

]]> By: Craig http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11708 Craig Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:11:04 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11708 Exactly! This is a problem I have been bemoaning since exposed to it in seminary. Serving in an ELCA congregation, this is all we hear also-you need a "Mission Plan" and "Long-range planning committee's" and the like. We were even told by one of the presenters at the latest synod theological conference, that we need to look at what is happening in our churches and keep what is good, change what is viable and to ditch what is not "working" (even if it is some tradition within the church). We are to treat the church as a business, b/c "that" is what is going to "attract" people to the church. Silly me, I always thought it was the work of the Holy Spirit, working in and through the Word and Sacraments, that did such. Exactly! This is a problem I have been bemoaning since exposed to it in seminary. Serving in an ELCA congregation, this is all we hear also-you need a “Mission Plan” and “Long-range planning committee’s” and the like. We were even told by one of the presenters at the latest synod theological conference, that we need to look at what is happening in our churches and keep what is good, change what is viable and to ditch what is not “working” (even if it is some tradition within the church). We are to treat the church as a business, b/c “that” is what is going to “attract” people to the church. Silly me, I always thought it was the work of the Holy Spirit, working in and through the Word and Sacraments, that did such.

]]> By: Phil http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11707 Phil Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:02:22 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11707 Brian, I heard about your blog on Issues, Etc. Then when I got home and pulled it up, it was a huge flashback for me. I used to work for a very large church in Charlotte, NC. It wasn't Lutheran. It was reformed, but this corporate mentality seems to be alive in every denomination. The main pastor had recently left to pursue a call in Birmingham, Al., and the associate pastor took over. Not only was he looking to make the church more "modern," he was also looking to make it more corporate. We soon had a heretic...uh...I mean consultant come in and start making suggestions. Man, it sounded just like what you were describing! So, we all had to start writing vision statements for our departments that spearheaded into the main vision (oh yes, there were a lot of buzz words, too...like "spearhead"). Eventually they hired an administrative pastor who came directly out of the corporate world with no biblical training at all. All of this together nearly destroyed the church. That pastor is not gone. The admin pastor is not gone. Many of the members are now gone. I am now gone ("let go" because I didn't fit in with the vision that I didn't agree with). I hear now that they are recovering and that they have a pastor who is preaching law and gospel. Thank God for that. I don't say all of this to discourage you, but to encourage you to prayer. I will pray with you and will keep up with your blog to see how things are going. I will pray for you if you stand alone, but I hope others see it, too. There is no doubt a place in each church for business as we have to do accounting, IT, maintenance, etc. My area was IT. However, that mentality can invade and take over the whole church. Stand strong, brother. Phil Brian,

I heard about your blog on Issues, Etc. Then when I got home and pulled it up, it was a huge flashback for me. I used to work for a very large church in Charlotte, NC. It wasn’t Lutheran. It was reformed, but this corporate mentality seems to be alive in every denomination.

The main pastor had recently left to pursue a call in Birmingham, Al., and the associate pastor took over. Not only was he looking to make the church more “modern,” he was also looking to make it more corporate. We soon had a heretic…uh…I mean consultant come in and start making suggestions. Man, it sounded just like what you were describing! So, we all had to start writing vision statements for our departments that spearheaded into the main vision (oh yes, there were a lot of buzz words, too…like “spearhead”).

Eventually they hired an administrative pastor who came directly out of the corporate world with no biblical training at all. All of this together nearly destroyed the church. That pastor is not gone. The admin pastor is not gone. Many of the members are now gone. I am now gone (“let go” because I didn’t fit in with the vision that I didn’t agree with). I hear now that they are recovering and that they have a pastor who is preaching law and gospel. Thank God for that.

I don’t say all of this to discourage you, but to encourage you to prayer. I will pray with you and will keep up with your blog to see how things are going. I will pray for you if you stand alone, but I hope others see it, too. There is no doubt a place in each church for business as we have to do accounting, IT, maintenance, etc. My area was IT. However, that mentality can invade and take over the whole church. Stand strong, brother.

Phil

]]> By: Brian Yamabe http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11706 Brian Yamabe Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:32:08 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11706 Gary, Your prayers are most welcomed. ---Brian Gary,
Your prayers are most welcomed.

—Brian

]]> By: Gary http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/comment-page-1/#comment-11705 Gary Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:20:56 +0000 http://yamabe.net/2008/12/10/congregation-or-corporation/#comment-11705 I'm a visitor from Issues, etc., and I just want to let you know that I'm praying for you and Shepherd of the Valley Lutheran Church. I’m a visitor from Issues, etc., and I just want to let you know that I’m praying for you and Shepherd of the Valley Lutheran Church.

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