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	<title>Comments on: Analysis: Contemporary vs. Traditional Worship</title>
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	<description>Life Under the Cross</description>
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		<title>By: Brian Yamabe</title>
		<link>http://yamabe.net/2009/07/21/analysis-contemporary-vs-traditional-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-11912</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Yamabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Matt,
Thank you for the very thoughtful comments. I hadn&#039;t thought about what would happen when the next pastor is called. The congregation, at least outwardly, doesn&#039;t overtly take sides, but I&#039;ve always been concerned the effects of having two styles and thought that we are borrowing on a lot of existing capital (the fact that most of the congregation was there when there was only one traditional service).

I agree that [2] and [3] aren&#039;t mutually exclusive and will work on a way to better convey that.

Thank you for the suggestion on burning Issues, Etc. series. I&#039;ve done this a little (I gave out Pastor Weedon&#039;s 10 CD series on the historic liturgy), I just need to find more allies.

Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,<br />
Thank you for the very thoughtful comments. I hadn&#8217;t thought about what would happen when the next pastor is called. The congregation, at least outwardly, doesn&#8217;t overtly take sides, but I&#8217;ve always been concerned the effects of having two styles and thought that we are borrowing on a lot of existing capital (the fact that most of the congregation was there when there was only one traditional service).</p>
<p>I agree that [2] and [3] aren&#8217;t mutually exclusive and will work on a way to better convey that.</p>
<p>Thank you for the suggestion on burning Issues, Etc. series. I&#8217;ve done this a little (I gave out Pastor Weedon&#8217;s 10 CD series on the historic liturgy), I just need to find more allies.</p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Jamison</title>
		<link>http://yamabe.net/2009/07/21/analysis-contemporary-vs-traditional-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-11910</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Jamison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yamabe.net/2009/07/22/analysis-contemporary-vs-traditional-worship/#comment-11910</guid>
		<description>Brian,

I&#039;ve been following the discussion at BJS about this with great interest. I hope you will find my comments helpful.

I think you should be commended for the spirit in which you are doing this. I don&#039;t agree with the commenter at BJS who thinks you should &quot;shake the dust off your feet&quot; and find another congregation. It takes a lot of patience to educate, persuade and contend for the faith in a way that might move the hearts and minds of those who have a hard time understanding the arguments for traditional worship.

A few observations, if I may; 

I think having traditional and blended (or contemporary) options in one congregation is a recipe for strife and division. I have known several LCMS congregations who have tried to pursue this middle-of-the-road approach. The problem is that it divides your congregation into two hostile factions. This will become painfully obvious when you have to call a new pastor, and you will find that all your candidates prefer one approach or the other. Your current pastor may be doing an okay job of keeping most people happy, but his successor will probably be very committed to either the contemporary or traditional form, and will not do a good job of leading the worship that he doesn&#039;t like.

Under &quot;status of the controversy&quot; you seem to set up points [2] and [3] as mutually exclusive. I don&#039;t think this is the case. I affirm that we have the freedom to change ceremonies, as discussed in the Book of Concord. However, Christians who understand scripture in the same way that the Lutheran reformation fathers did quickly come to agreement on the best way to worship; what we now call &quot;traditional.&quot; Lutherans who are under the influence of contemporary trends in American culture and, specifically, the pop-evangelical &quot;Christian&quot; subculture believe the best way to worship is what we are calling &quot;contemporary.&quot;

Traditional worship is more authentically Lutheran, and authentic Lutheranism is exactly the right way to proclaim the Gospel in 21st Century America. We need to distinguish ourselves from the pop-evangelical subculture, not imitate it. Christians in other traditions who are not hearing the Gospel (but lots and lots of law) need to know that there is something different about the Lutherans. 

To expand on the point: I&#039;ve worshipped in several very confessional and liturgical LCMS churches, congregations that are in 100% agreement with my own on every point of doctrine. Yet, no two liturgies were exactly the same. Some had individual cups, some did not. Some used Divine Service II, some would never. So, there is freedom in adiaphora, and for good reason. 

Yet, these congregations would agree that video screens, praise bands and children&#039;s sermons are generally not appropriate, even though they are very common in other denominations. The discussion is about what is best, not what is allowed.

Finally, a practical suggestion. I presume you are an Issues, Etc. listener? I suggest that you burn the best Issues episodes (such as the current series with Cantor Magness) to CD and distribute the CDs to your fellow parishoners who are open to persuasion on these points. Let them know that you are trying to start a conversation and not trying to condemn the &quot;contemporaries.&quot; This has worked well for me as a way to express confessional ideas in my own congregations, Pr. Wilken and guests are much better communicators than I can be!

Your respect for your pastor and love for your congregation really shows. I pray for your success as you work to persuade and lead them to the treasures that we have inherited in the Lutheran Christianity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been following the discussion at BJS about this with great interest. I hope you will find my comments helpful.</p>
<p>I think you should be commended for the spirit in which you are doing this. I don&#8217;t agree with the commenter at BJS who thinks you should &#8220;shake the dust off your feet&#8221; and find another congregation. It takes a lot of patience to educate, persuade and contend for the faith in a way that might move the hearts and minds of those who have a hard time understanding the arguments for traditional worship.</p>
<p>A few observations, if I may; </p>
<p>I think having traditional and blended (or contemporary) options in one congregation is a recipe for strife and division. I have known several LCMS congregations who have tried to pursue this middle-of-the-road approach. The problem is that it divides your congregation into two hostile factions. This will become painfully obvious when you have to call a new pastor, and you will find that all your candidates prefer one approach or the other. Your current pastor may be doing an okay job of keeping most people happy, but his successor will probably be very committed to either the contemporary or traditional form, and will not do a good job of leading the worship that he doesn&#8217;t like.</p>
<p>Under &#8220;status of the controversy&#8221; you seem to set up points [2] and [3] as mutually exclusive. I don&#8217;t think this is the case. I affirm that we have the freedom to change ceremonies, as discussed in the Book of Concord. However, Christians who understand scripture in the same way that the Lutheran reformation fathers did quickly come to agreement on the best way to worship; what we now call &#8220;traditional.&#8221; Lutherans who are under the influence of contemporary trends in American culture and, specifically, the pop-evangelical &#8220;Christian&#8221; subculture believe the best way to worship is what we are calling &#8220;contemporary.&#8221;</p>
<p>Traditional worship is more authentically Lutheran, and authentic Lutheranism is exactly the right way to proclaim the Gospel in 21st Century America. We need to distinguish ourselves from the pop-evangelical subculture, not imitate it. Christians in other traditions who are not hearing the Gospel (but lots and lots of law) need to know that there is something different about the Lutherans. </p>
<p>To expand on the point: I&#8217;ve worshipped in several very confessional and liturgical LCMS churches, congregations that are in 100% agreement with my own on every point of doctrine. Yet, no two liturgies were exactly the same. Some had individual cups, some did not. Some used Divine Service II, some would never. So, there is freedom in adiaphora, and for good reason. </p>
<p>Yet, these congregations would agree that video screens, praise bands and children&#8217;s sermons are generally not appropriate, even though they are very common in other denominations. The discussion is about what is best, not what is allowed.</p>
<p>Finally, a practical suggestion. I presume you are an Issues, Etc. listener? I suggest that you burn the best Issues episodes (such as the current series with Cantor Magness) to CD and distribute the CDs to your fellow parishoners who are open to persuasion on these points. Let them know that you are trying to start a conversation and not trying to condemn the &#8220;contemporaries.&#8221; This has worked well for me as a way to express confessional ideas in my own congregations, Pr. Wilken and guests are much better communicators than I can be!</p>
<p>Your respect for your pastor and love for your congregation really shows. I pray for your success as you work to persuade and lead them to the treasures that we have inherited in the Lutheran Christianity.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The Brothers of John the Steadfast &#187; Analysis: Contemporary vs. Traditional Worship</title>
		<link>http://yamabe.net/2009/07/21/analysis-contemporary-vs-traditional-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-11897</link>
		<dc:creator>The Brothers of John the Steadfast &#187; Analysis: Contemporary vs. Traditional Worship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yamabe.net/2009/07/22/analysis-contemporary-vs-traditional-worship/#comment-11897</guid>
		<description>[...] is a posting that we found on the Vocation in the Valley (yamabe.net) written by Brian Yamabe, one of the commentors on this site. (Vocation in the Valley [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is a posting that we found on the Vocation in the Valley (yamabe.net) written by Brian Yamabe, one of the commentors on this site. (Vocation in the Valley [...]</p>
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